The Worst Time To Prune Grapes

 

A recent post by the North Carolina Cooperative Extension Henderson County Center warns us about "The Worst Thing You Could Do to Grapes in Unseasonable Warm Winter Weather." The worst thing is to begin pruning too early.

"Pruning helps to stimulate vine growth. You may see grape buds in some degree of bud swell, particularly the European bunch grape varieties. Those varieties have very little chilling requirement that can be met in a few cold days. 

"A short cooling pattern will do little to harden the vines and buds for any potential cold weather in January or February. A precipitous drop (30-40°F) in temperatures after warm weather can cause a lot of damage.”

It's a warning we should heed. But wild fluctuations in weather patterns can catch us by surprise. Just when we think it's cold enough to prune safely, a significant rise in temperatures can initiate bud swell. Then - BAM - a deep drop in temperature causes a whole lot of damage. Not only are buds frozen, but entire vines can be wiped out by the cold. 

Those of us who have several acres planted in grapes are bound by the calendar and seasons, so we have to have our vines pruned within a particular time frame. We do the best we can. 

The best advice is to check the long-range weather forecasts before beginning the pruning operation.

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Advice needed on saving a wild muscadine

I took down a tree last Fall that had a large wild muscadine vine growing into it. I was going to clear it too but my wife convinced me to see if we could save it. It took a bit of work but I basically removed branch by branch of the fallen tree, until all that was left was the muscadine. I am wondering if you can give any advice on pruning and training it? 

I'm prepared to build a trellis for it; the usual setup of 9 gauge wire between posts 20' apart. And it should get plenty of sun where it is. But since the vine grew up wild, it isn't in the usual training pattern. The trunk goes about 15 feet before it does anything, and then it branches and splits several times, and the growth is just everywhere. In all it's about 45 feet long. Do you have any advice, especially on how aggressive I should be in removing growth? Thanks! 

It would be difficult to advise about exactly how to prune it. That would require a "hands-on" session. It would indeed be difficult to train it to a trellis of any sort without radical pruning.
Since the trunk is bare to 15 feet or so, you might consider a high overhead trellis. Take a look at the image below:




I found this image on TripAdvisor. It's a vineyard in NZ. You can see how wire is strung from post to post, the arms stretched across and the vines closely pruned. Something like this could work if you care to go to the trouble and expense.

I visited a similar system at a fruit experiment station near Shepherdstown, WV about 30 years ago. It was made for apples. Telephone poles supported an overhead wire grid upon which the scaffold limbs were trained in a flat umbrella fashion. The trees were pruned annually by a person who would walk across the top of the grid wearing footwear resembling snowshoes brandishing either a swing-blade or a "string trimmer" outfitted with a circular saw blade. (I tried to find a picture of the Shepherdstown system online, but no luck. Unfortunately, I have no pictures existing from my visit.)

A less interesting but more practical solution might be to cut the plant to the ground during dormancy. It's likely the stump would sprout and you could train one of the young shoots to a convention single-wire trellis.

I hope this helps.


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What is the difference between a Muscadine and Scuppernong vine?

What is the difference between a Muscadine and Scuppernong vine?  ...Would you suggest I do my major pruning now?

Scuppernong is one bronze/white variety of muscadine grape. It was discovered as early as the 1500s by explorers. Eventually, it was rediscovered in the 1750s growing near the Scuppernong River in N.C. Consequently, bronze/white varieties became known as scuppernongs and black or purple varieties known as muscadines, but that is incorrect. There are many varieties of bronze muscadines. All scuppernongs are muscadines, but not all muscadines are scuppernongs.

You can do your major pruning now. Try to be done by the time new foliage begins to emerge. 

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Questions about fertilizing and pruning muscadines

Q. My parents live in Avon Park, FL. They told me that the muscadines didn't make this year and I was doing some research and came across your Youtube videos. Any idea why they didn't make?

A. There could be several reasons for not bearing this year, including late frost, lack of pollination - perhaps a nearby pollinator died, failure to prune for several years, lack of pollinating vectors.

Q. Do my parents need to fertilize the muscadine plants? (10-10-10 fertilizer 6 inches from plant and around the plant) With what and what time of year to add fertilizer.

A. If the plants are not putting on much new growth, they might need some 10-10-10. A soil test might indicate the need.

If the plants have any age on them at all, putting fertilizer 6 inches away from the plant will do little good. The roots are shallow and run a long way. It would be best to broadcast the fertilizer around the plants as much as 3 feet or more. Casting the fertilizer with a gloved hand or a lawn fertilizer spreader will work. Fertilize early spring.

A soil test might indicate the need for magnesium sulfate - Epsom salt. You can broadcast some even without taking a soil test. Epsom salt is like chicken soup for some ailing plants. It might help; it can't hurt.

Q. Pruning what time of year?

A. Prune during dormancy with leaves off the plants so you can see what you're doing. That would be from early December to early March. Actually, you can prune other times of year, too. The problem would be knocking off young flowers and fruit. Muscadines will not "bleed to death."

Q. Who can we call to have someone check out the soil pH and check for diseases of the plants?

A. You can do collect a soil sample yourself. Drop by your closest Cooperative Extension Service office. Request a soil sample bag. Add soil to the bag per instructions usually printed on the bag. Return the sample to the Extension office. You will be charged a nominal fee. The office in Highlands County, FL is at 4509 George Blvd., Sebring, FL 33875. A horticulturist with the Extension Service might be persuaded to take a look at the plants to look for diseases. In most cases, muscadine diseases - mostly fungal - aren't worth worrying about.

Another question about renovating an old muscadine trellis

I have a question about OLD muscadine/scuppernong vines. We have a piece of property with very old very neglected vines. Some of the poles are rotted at the ground and need to be replaced to even have a chance of getting things back on track. The grape vine base is by these poles. When we dig new holes is there any way to keep from damaging the old vines? Is it better to try to start over from scratch?

You should be able to avoid damaging visible trunks without much trouble, but to be on the safe side maybe wrap some kind of barrier around the bases of the vines to avoid skinning them with your post hole digger or shovel. A section or two of old bicycle tires or some aluminum flashing held on with wire might work.

You will probably damage some roots in the process, but don't worry about it too much. Muscadine grape roots grow out in various directions from the base of the plant. Each plant will have several. They usually grow less than an inch or two under the soil surface. To avoid damaging roots where you dig, excavate the soil with your finger where you intend to dig to discover whether roots are there. If roots are unavoidable, go ahead and dig. The other roots will support the plants.

Here's an alternative. If the majority of posts are rotted, consider not replacing them where they were before. Install them instead between the vines. For example, if your vines are growing 20' apart, install the new posts half way between them. You have less chance of damaging the plants.

 

Another muscadine arbor renovation project

I have a very old muscadine vine that I'm trying to bring back under management (it's on an overhead,  walk-under arbor).  The problem is that there's multiple, really big trunks coming out of the ground, none of which are really "straight" - they're mostly crooked and inter-twining but all do make it to the top where they branch every where!  I've been trimming the top pretty severely over the last couple winters but with so many trunks in place (easily 5-6), the canopy becomes way too thick and the fruit crop suffers, as a result.  Also, to complicate matters, one of the main, central trunks actually immediately branches a couple times right at the soil level.  Do I just need to "pick one" and clip everything else down to soil level and if so, how to choose?  Also, how do you stop the frenzy of new growth at the base when this is done (particularly drives me nuts!)?  Thank you so much for your time and knowledge!

I think you are correct. As you said, "'pick one' and cut everything else down to soil level." Though all the trunks are crooked, pick the straightest. Yes, there will be a "frenzy of new growth at the base." There's nothing to be done about that but to keep removing the sprouts. The easiest and most effective way is to rub them off with your fingers while they are still very small, young and soft. Wear gloves so you don't rub your skin off in the process. Eventually the sprouts will stop emerging.

You might find it very difficult to untangle and remove the mess on the top of the arbor. Try to retain what you need that is growing from the remaining trunk. But if it becomes impossible to do so, consider cutting the main trunk at the top. Then remove all the old growth from the top of the arbor. It should re-sprout. Choose a few of those vines to form arms radiating outward from the top of the trunk. (I'm assuming the trunk is growing under the center of the arbor.) You will probably have little if any fruit the first year or so, but your arbor will be easier to maintain.

You might not want to prune so radically. If not, I understand completely.

Renovating an old muscadine grape trellis

 

Q. Mr. Marshall, about 20 years back my mother planted some muscadines on a t-post arbor system. She passed away shortly after, and depressed, we all let the land kinda fall into disrepair. I've been working on bringing the yard back, and I finally got to the back where the muscadines were/are. Evidently a tree fell on the trellis at some point and though her original plantings still live, it is horribly over grown, there are shoots every where and trees that need felling. I found remnants of old fruit and rabbit droppings so I believe they are were still fruiting, but I had to cut down the older ones to get at the t-post and mesh it had snarled around. I left about a foot off the ground. It seems to be okay, but there is one gnarled up sucker that has 3 trunks.  Are these things hardy enough that I can expect them to come back? Are they responsive to hard cutting back? Or do you think I probably lost them?

I'd like to set them on a 1 wire trellis like you have here.

 

A.I think you would do well to cut the old trunks flush with the ground. It will be easier for you to work around them clearing brush, setting up your new trellis, etc. If the plants are in reasonably good health, they should sprout. After a few weeks of growth, choose the strongest vine to become your new trunk. Remove the others. It will take some doing to keep the others from returning, but stick with it.

A Conversation About Pruning A Young Muscadine Grape Arbor

Young muscadine arbor

John, Thanks for posting the muscadine pruning videos. They are very informational. I was hoping you could answer a question about our muscadine growing/pruning situation. We have four Southland variety muscadines growing up four separate 8 ft arbor posts. Each post has wire running up all four sides. The vines get to the top and then we train them across the arbors in all directions. We let them grab onto each other to form a kind of natural canopy overhead. (Arbors are about six feet away from each other.)

We planted them last February and they did really well this year in terms of vines, and okay in terms of fruit. Most of our fruit actually came in the late Fall. Which surprised us. Anyway, it is getting time to prune, and I'm not sure how to go about it, since we can't really grow them in the T-shape due to our space limitations. If you could give me a recommendation on how to prune, it would be much appreciated. I can send you a picture or two if it would help. Right now, each plant has two to three "main" trunks from which most of the vines are coming.

In your case, I think you could do with only one main trunk per plant. At the top of each trunk you should choose a vine to train as a horizontal arm to cross the top of the arbor. Prune the ends off the arms when they begin to meet. Don't let them overlap.

Once these horizontal arms are formed, choose well-spaced side shoots along the length of each arm to train as fruiting spurs. Cut each shoot to 4 inches in length. Those short spurs will produce their own fruit-producing side shoots during the coming growing season. Next winter, prune those to 3 or 4 inches in length. And so it goes year after year.

As the vines grow older, you'll need to go back and do some renovation pruning, but that's another issue.

So I should have like an 8 ft tall trunk?

It appears that the segments (vertical and horizontal posts across the path) are not connected in any way. Am I correct?

Nevertheless, if the top of the arbor is 8' tall, each trunk should be 8' tall. It seems from the photo that you want the arms to extend across the path. If so, I recommend you have one main trunk growing up each post. Then have one arm from each trunk growing horizontally across the top and meeting in the middle. On those arms,  you'd establish fruiting spurs as described before.

Actually, I think you don't even need a trunk growing up every post. One trunk per segment and one arm growing horizontally across the path would be sufficient. Each trunk would easily produce an arm to extend across the path. As young as your vines are, you could remove the extra vines, especially those growing closest to the building and transplant them elsewhere.

Yes, the two arbors are not connected. So you are saying I should grow two of them to the top, then send one arm across each path? So it would be a 90 degree angle going up the post, then across the arbor top?

So then off the arm, the fruiting spurs would come. Won't these fruiting spurs be really long each year? Should I just let them hang down from the top of the arbor? If so, maybe I would nee to send the arms the other direction (in between the arbors) otherwise I would have a wall of vines blocking the pathway. Maybe then I should just do two plants, catty-corner from each other, and send them in between the arbors?

I guess for the year, I will need to keep a main trunk supported higher up on the plant. Maybe for a few more years until the trunk gets big enough. Right now it is pretty flimsy towards the top.

Yes. You could grow one trunk per vertical post to the top of the post. (Or you could have one trunk growing up one post and no trunk on the opposite post.) Then grow one arm from each trunk at a 90 degree angle (horizontally) to the center of the arbor. When they arms meet at the center of the arbor (above the path), cut the growth tips out of the arms so they don't overlap. They should butt-up to each other.

Then from those arms the fruiting spurs grow.  You see, when you cut the growth tip off of each arm, the arms will be stimulated to produce lateral growth along their lengths. Let all those lateral vines grow during the first growing season. The following winter (pruning season), select lateral vines that are about 8 inches or more apart. They will be the permanent foundation of future fruiting spurs. Prune them short to about 3 buds. Remove entirely any lateral vines between the selected spurs. This will give you enough room between the selected spurs (the permanent foundation) to reach your hand in and pick in the future.

The next growing season, those 3 or so remaining buds on the selected spurs will produce new growth. The following pruning season, prune the new growth to 2 or 3 buds. So it goes year after year.

Yes, the buds on those fruiting spurs will produce long vines during the growing season, but they can be shortened. Most of the fruit will be produced near the base of the spurs way up high, so you can trim the long vines that grow down and get in your way without harming the maturing grapes. When you trim them back, just make sure you leave enough foliage to feed the maturing grapes.

Got it. Thanks so much, John. This really helps

So regarding the pruning I will do very soon, should I select a main trunk and prune it at the top of the arbor? Then train the main arms this season (cutting them off when they reach each other)? I guess I would select which branches would become the main arms by picking the strongest looking ones?

Yes to all.

And here's a final question regarding which plants I should keep. In the picture, the two plants close to the house are in a bed with blueberries. The other two plants are in a bed that has rotating vegetables (anything from carrots to tomatoes to potatoes to peas, lots of stuff, changing year-to-year). I know the grapes and blueberries are both shallow-root plants, but since they are both perennial, do you think it would be better to leave those plants in place and move the plants that are in ever-changing vegetable beds? I guess it's a question of competition with blueberries vs. being in an oft-disturbed vegetable bed.

Companion planting can be a good idea, but some plants don't make good companions. Check around on the internet or in books on the subject to see what might work for you.

Another thought: Most vegetables prefer full sun. Blueberry shrubs nearby might not allow sufficient exposure.

Still another thought: Blueberries like low pH. Some vegetables might prefer higher pH than what blueberries need.

A question about training young muscadine vines to a pergola

I have just become the coordinator for our school garden.  At the entrance is a pergola with a muscadine vine planted at each post.  They have been growing for 3-4 years.  At this point they are bushy, sprawling outward from posts, 3-4 feet tall, leafed out with tiny grapes already.  I am unsure if they have every been pruned.  It seems to me that they are too bushy at the entrance somewhat blocking the pathway.  I have never grown muscadines myself though I have picked them at grower's places.  I do not know how to proceed to help train them up the post and hopefully thin them at bottom? Move them?  Any advice or direction to instructions that would pertain to this particular type of situation would be helpful.

I'm assuming you want to grow them up the post.

At each post, sort through the tangle and select the longest vine. That will be your main trunk. Prune off all other vines from the main trunk. Tie the main trunk to the post with some 1" wide plastic tape. Train the main trunk to grow up the post by tying it as it grows upward. If the tape gets tight, cut it off and tie again loosely. It's not too late to prune. You'll probably lose some of the small grapes, but that's okay because the vine is too young to bear anyway. If allowed to bear, it will slow the upward growth process.

During the summer, new sprouts may grow along the trunk. Prune them off. You can simply rub them off if they are soft and young enough.

John Marshall
goGardenNow.com
goGardenNow.blogspot.com

Will my muscadine vines bleed to death?

I've pruned my muscadine grape vines, and water is dripping from the cuts. I was told they might bleed to death. Is that possible?

The water that's dripping is sap. The sap is running because it's spring, the weather is warming, and your vines are coming out of dormancy. There is no danger that your vines will "bleed" to death.

There is a possibility that orange slime mold might grow in the sap. You can read about that in another blog post. The slime mold won't harm your plants.

John J Marshall
goGardenNow.com

John also blogs at goGardenNow.blogspot.com.

Pruning a fig tree to reduce its height.

I received the following inquiry a few weeks ago.

Mr. John, (We) have a very large fig tree. It's at least 15 feet tall, if not taller. When is the best time to prune it? ...I would like to prune it so I can reach all of the figs! ALL OF THEM. Just kidding. ...I heard it was good to prune them, but I won't if it isn't!  -C.K., Athens, GA.

Dear C.K., I'm assuming that your fig tree is vigorous and in good health. Since you want to prune your fig to reduce the height of the tree, you need to do it so it won't grow back to its present height too quickly. Timing is important. Spring pruning tends to stimulate new, rapid growth; summer pruning does not, so prune in late summer.

Prune in stages. Heavy pruning all at once tends to stimulate new, rapid growth; selective pruning in stages does not, so prune selectively in stages.

Heavy pruning will reduce your crop a lot. You don't want that. Selective pruning in stages will reduce your crop a little, so do that.

Here's how:

Resign yourself to the fact that this will be a two-year process. Resign yourself to the fact that you will lose some figs.

Prune from late June to mid-July.

Be sure your tools are sharp. Make clean cuts. Avoid making ragged wounds.

Determine how tall you want your fig tree to be. Select about 1/2 of the tallest limbs, and cut them back about 2 feet below the ultimate height you desire.

Always cut back to a point just above a node, if you can identify it. A "node" is a point on a limb or branch where growth emerges. If you cut midway between nodes, or just below a node, you'll leave a stub that will die and rot. The rotting tissue can invade healthy tissue; you don't want that.

While you're at it, remove any dead, diseased or damaged limbs by cutting them back to the nearest node or joint.

Next year, follow the same procedure, cutting back the remaining portion that's too tall.

Avoid fertilizing. It will only stimulate your fig tree to return to its original height.

What is a scaffold limb?

What is a scaffold limb?

Looking up the definition at Dictionary.com, I found one that could that apply: any raised framework.

The plant (shrub, tree or vine) scaffold consists of the largest, strongest limbs or branches which form the main structure of the plant. In some of my blog articles and Youtube videos, I point out the importance of training a strong scaffold, beginning while the plant is very young. A strong and properly trained scaffold will allow the plant to withstand wind, snow loads, and fruit with minimal limb breakage.

Here are four examples:


Prunus persica (peach)


Vitis rotundifolia (Muscadine grape vine)


Acer palmatum var. dissectum 'Tamukeyama' (Japanese maple)


Magnolia denudata (Yulan magnolia)

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