The Worst Time To Prune Grapes

 

A recent post by the North Carolina Cooperative Extension Henderson County Center warns us about "The Worst Thing You Could Do to Grapes in Unseasonable Warm Winter Weather." The worst thing is to begin pruning too early.

"Pruning helps to stimulate vine growth. You may see grape buds in some degree of bud swell, particularly the European bunch grape varieties. Those varieties have very little chilling requirement that can be met in a few cold days. 

"A short cooling pattern will do little to harden the vines and buds for any potential cold weather in January or February. A precipitous drop (30-40°F) in temperatures after warm weather can cause a lot of damage.”

It's a warning we should heed. But wild fluctuations in weather patterns can catch us by surprise. Just when we think it's cold enough to prune safely, a significant rise in temperatures can initiate bud swell. Then - BAM - a deep drop in temperature causes a whole lot of damage. Not only are buds frozen, but entire vines can be wiped out by the cold. 

Those of us who have several acres planted in grapes are bound by the calendar and seasons, so we have to have our vines pruned within a particular time frame. We do the best we can. 

The best advice is to check the long-range weather forecasts before beginning the pruning operation.

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FAQ: How to care for muscadines and blackberries

Q. I live in north Alabama and purchased a house in March that has an existing small muscadine and scupadine orchard that is irrigated. 5 rows about 35-40 feet each in length. I was told last year they harvested over 600 lbs. of muscadines. They produced real well this year, however,  I am not familiar with the best way to care for them and want to make sure they continue to produce.  When and what do I need to fertilize with?  How often and how much do I need to water?  Do I need to spray pesticide, insecticides, etc.?   I watched your video on pruning and it seems to be very similar to pruning roses (of which I am very familiar).  In North Alabama would  January or February be the best time to prune and can you prune to much?  It does not appear to me that they have been pruned in quiet sometime.

Also have a row of tame blackberries.  I have the same questions about them.

A. Before fertilizing, take a soil sample to your nearby Cooperative Extension office for analysis. Follow the recommendations. Fertilize only as needed. 10-10-10 is often prescribed. The vines do not need to grow so long as to grow along the ground. Vines 3' to 4' are long enough. Muscadine roots grow close to the soil surface and run a great distance, so broadcast the fertilizer over the area. (Just in case you ever get the notion to roto-till or disc the space between your rows, don't do it.)

Muscadines are drought-tolerant, so irrigation of mature vines is only necessary during extreme drought. Newly planted vines can be irrigated until established. A couple inches of water per week should be sufficient.

Pruning should be done annually without fail. You should be able to begin pruning soon after Thanksgiving. Pruning too much will only reduce the size of your crop; it won't kill the plant. If they haven't been pruned in a long time, you have a lot of work to do. My videos should be instructional in that regard.


Blackberry culture is similar. Have the soil sampled. Fertilize as prescribed. Irrigate a couple of inches per week during dry weather. Prune out old canes annually. Keep weeds out of the rows using a pre-emergent. Post-emergents can damage the canes.

Advice needed on saving a wild muscadine

I took down a tree last Fall that had a large wild muscadine vine growing into it. I was going to clear it too but my wife convinced me to see if we could save it. It took a bit of work but I basically removed branch by branch of the fallen tree, until all that was left was the muscadine. I am wondering if you can give any advice on pruning and training it? 

I'm prepared to build a trellis for it; the usual setup of 9 gauge wire between posts 20' apart. And it should get plenty of sun where it is. But since the vine grew up wild, it isn't in the usual training pattern. The trunk goes about 15 feet before it does anything, and then it branches and splits several times, and the growth is just everywhere. In all it's about 45 feet long. Do you have any advice, especially on how aggressive I should be in removing growth? Thanks! 

It would be difficult to advise about exactly how to prune it. That would require a "hands-on" session. It would indeed be difficult to train it to a trellis of any sort without radical pruning.
Since the trunk is bare to 15 feet or so, you might consider a high overhead trellis. Take a look at the image below:




I found this image on TripAdvisor. It's a vineyard in NZ. You can see how wire is strung from post to post, the arms stretched across and the vines closely pruned. Something like this could work if you care to go to the trouble and expense.

I visited a similar system at a fruit experiment station near Shepherdstown, WV about 30 years ago. It was made for apples. Telephone poles supported an overhead wire grid upon which the scaffold limbs were trained in a flat umbrella fashion. The trees were pruned annually by a person who would walk across the top of the grid wearing footwear resembling snowshoes brandishing either a swing-blade or a "string trimmer" outfitted with a circular saw blade. (I tried to find a picture of the Shepherdstown system online, but no luck. Unfortunately, I have no pictures existing from my visit.)

A less interesting but more practical solution might be to cut the plant to the ground during dormancy. It's likely the stump would sprout and you could train one of the young shoots to a convention single-wire trellis.

I hope this helps.


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At what point do muscadine vines begin to taper off in production?

Our family has a set of muscadine vines that are about 35 years old. They are prolific when pruned yearly. How long should I expect these vines to produce before we cut them down and replant? I saw your video where you pruned 50-year old vines. At what point do vines begin to taper off in production?

There's no particular age at which point vines begin to taper off. As long as they're maintained well, they can live to ripe old ages. The oldest scuppernong, known as the "Mother Vine" growing at Manteo, NC, was estimated to have been over 400 years old. I think it died fairly recently.

Sometimes even with annual pruning, the vines can become overgrown, so need to be renovated, cut back real hard to remove some or most of the old "spurs that" that have grown to look like antlers. You'll lose some production in doing so. I'm in the process of doing some of that now. Some are going strong. I'm removing a few unproductive vines. It's possible that some unproductive vines cut down to the ground will re-sprout from the trunk and give you a fresh, new, productive vine from the old roots.

The vines can certainly outlast the trellises they grow upon.

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What is the difference between a Muscadine and Scuppernong vine?

What is the difference between a Muscadine and Scuppernong vine?  ...Would you suggest I do my major pruning now?

Scuppernong is one bronze/white variety of muscadine grape. It was discovered as early as the 1500s by explorers. Eventually, it was rediscovered in the 1750s growing near the Scuppernong River in N.C. Consequently, bronze/white varieties became known as scuppernongs and black or purple varieties known as muscadines, but that is incorrect. There are many varieties of bronze muscadines. All scuppernongs are muscadines, but not all muscadines are scuppernongs.

You can do your major pruning now. Try to be done by the time new foliage begins to emerge. 

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Questions about fertilizing and pruning muscadines

Q. My parents live in Avon Park, FL. They told me that the muscadines didn't make this year and I was doing some research and came across your Youtube videos. Any idea why they didn't make?

A. There could be several reasons for not bearing this year, including late frost, lack of pollination - perhaps a nearby pollinator died, failure to prune for several years, lack of pollinating vectors.

Q. Do my parents need to fertilize the muscadine plants? (10-10-10 fertilizer 6 inches from plant and around the plant) With what and what time of year to add fertilizer.

A. If the plants are not putting on much new growth, they might need some 10-10-10. A soil test might indicate the need.

If the plants have any age on them at all, putting fertilizer 6 inches away from the plant will do little good. The roots are shallow and run a long way. It would be best to broadcast the fertilizer around the plants as much as 3 feet or more. Casting the fertilizer with a gloved hand or a lawn fertilizer spreader will work. Fertilize early spring.

A soil test might indicate the need for magnesium sulfate - Epsom salt. You can broadcast some even without taking a soil test. Epsom salt is like chicken soup for some ailing plants. It might help; it can't hurt.

Q. Pruning what time of year?

A. Prune during dormancy with leaves off the plants so you can see what you're doing. That would be from early December to early March. Actually, you can prune other times of year, too. The problem would be knocking off young flowers and fruit. Muscadines will not "bleed to death."

Q. Who can we call to have someone check out the soil pH and check for diseases of the plants?

A. You can do collect a soil sample yourself. Drop by your closest Cooperative Extension Service office. Request a soil sample bag. Add soil to the bag per instructions usually printed on the bag. Return the sample to the Extension office. You will be charged a nominal fee. The office in Highlands County, FL is at 4509 George Blvd., Sebring, FL 33875. A horticulturist with the Extension Service might be persuaded to take a look at the plants to look for diseases. In most cases, muscadine diseases - mostly fungal - aren't worth worrying about.

Large black worms attacking in large numbers...

1st instar larvae on Vitis rotundifolia

Help again? I was checking the vines this morning and there are small black worms attacking in large numbers the leaves of the scuppernongs and muscadines.  I would assume this is some sort of moth or butterfly larvae, but cannot find suitable information on the internet.  Any ideas would help.  I hate to attempt to get rid of them with the wrong pesticides if I have to use them at all.

They might be Hyalophora cecropia , 1st instar phase. I can't tell if the ones in your photo are as "hairy" as the ones in the links below.

http://www.prairiehaven.com/?page_id=8738
http://www.performance-vision.com/cecropia/cecropia.htm

The reason they don't show the coloration and size that you might see in photos of the big, green caterpillars is due to their immature phase.

I don't think you need to bother getting rid of them. More grape leaves will appear. They won't denude your vines. There are probably enough predators to keep them in check. Some type of BT dust might benefit.

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Muscadine vines stopped producing crops.

I have a 110' run of old muscadines that were planted about 1985 on a single wire trellis..  I have only lived here since 2006 and have been trying to have a good annual crop.  My first year pruning was very vigorous since they had not been pruned for about three years and there was a lot of old vines and dead wood to remove.

I have been having a good crop up until three years ago.  But since 2012 my crop has tapered off to almost no muscadines.  I am now getting very long new runners each year and also seeing more undeveloped 1/4" fruit as late as mid September, my normal picking time.

I have experimented with changes in  watering pattern, fertilizing, but nothing is helping produce more crop.  Three years ago I counted over 30 gallons of great muscadines that were produced.  I had so many after my family and friends had enough I put out road side signs and sold plenty.  in 2014 I only had 4 small ripe muscadines.

About four years before my crop tapered off to nothing, I planted a 30' row of various seedless grapes like Thompson and several other seedless varieties (I can't remember the names right now) that I purchased a my local Sam's Club.    The seedless? grapes are all loaded with seeds and are very tart even after four years of growth.
 
I also have a garden about 30' away that is about 130' X 40' that has stopped producing some crops like squash, and cucumbers.  The corn, beans, peppers, tomatoes are fine.  The lay-out is muscadines, then grapes, then garden.

So I am thinking two things, one- that the seedless grapes cannot coexist with muscadines, and two- I have seen almost no bees in the muscadines, grapes, and garden in the last several years.  I also do not use pesticides in the same area.

Even my neighbor about 1500 feet away is also not getting many muscadines.  He normally has enough to make annual wine.

My vines  normally produce large bronze and large dark purple fruit.

Do you have any recommendations about what to try to improve my muscadine no fruit situation?

Thanks for your help.

Also, great job on the three muscadine pruning videos. Thanks

Muscadine production depends on several factors including plant sex, pollen availability, pollen viability, pollination vectors, available nutrients, soil pH, disease and moisture. I won't go into great detail on any of these subjects, but will remark about how I think they might apply to you. I won't remark on pollen viability at all because it's too complex, and probably doesn't apply, anyway.

Muscadine varieties are either female or hermaphroditic. Female varieties do not produce pollen. Hermaphroditic varieties, also called "perfect-flowered", have both male and female flower parts, so they pollinate themselves and others. However, even "perfect-flowered" varieties benefit from cross-pollination. Since you and your neighbor both had good crops of muscadine grapes in the past, there must have been adequate pollen and pollination. If either or both of you lost grape vines, then you might have lost a source of pollen. However, I doubt this is your problem.

If pollen is available, muscadine pollination is achieved by insect carriers (vectors) and wind distribution. Insect carriers are most important. There are various opinions about which insects are most responsible for muscadine pollination. In my opinion, native wild halictid bees are most important. Regardless of which, pesticides can do damage to insect populations. Though you do not use pesticides in the area, keep in mind that other users might be reducing the pollinator populations.

Important macro nutrients include nitrogen, phophorus, potassium, calcium, magnesium, and sulphur. Important micro-nutrients include boron, zinc, iron, molybdenum, copper and manganese. Micro-nutrients elements become extremely important if they aren't present in sufficient amounts. Magnesium deficiency is very common in muscadine grapes. Boron deficiency will certainly reduce grape production. Magnesium deficiency will show up in a soil test, if you request a test for magnesium. Testing of leaf samples will indicate boron deficiency.

Even if present in sufficient amounts, most nutrient availability is reduced significantly if soil pH is too low or too high. Soil pH between 5.8 and 6.5 is best for muscadines. A soil test will indicate whether the pH needs to be adjusted, and tell how.

Mildew will impact grape production. Of course, high humidity contributes to the presence of mildew. If small grapes begin to form, but fall off prematurely, you might have a mildew problem. Fungicide application can help.

Now, here are some random but specific comments regarding your situation.

The presence of your seedless grape varieties have nothing to do with your muscadine grape production.

The absence of bees might account for some drop in fruit production in your muscadines, squash and cucumbers. But your corn, beans, peppers, tomatoes are fine.

Squash and cucumbers are prone to mildew infection. Since your muscadines, squash and cucumbers are not producing, perhaps mildew is your problem.

That brings me to what you said about "getting very long new runners each year and also seeing more undeveloped 1/4" fruit as late as mid September, my normal picking time." If you are getting very long runners, it's possible that you're applying too much fertilizer - especially nitrogen - and irrigating too much. Together, they can contribute to a rise in humidity and encourage mildew. That would also explain the late, undeveloped fruit.

To be brief, take soil samples from around your grape vines and vegetable garden to your nearby Cooperative Extension Service office for testing. In addition to macro-nutrients and pH, have them check for magnesium.

I expect you can stop fertilizing, at least this year. Don't irrigate unless weather conditions become very dry for an extended period of time.

I hope this helps.

Thanks for your compliment about the videos.


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New tiny muscadine grape clusters fall of before they get to "BB" size?

I'm in NE Tallahassee and have 6 muscadine vines about 8 years established. I got them from FAMU vineyards and have them post supported on a wire about 5' high x 60'. I have a drip line mounted about 2' above ground right down the center. I trim as you showed in your most informative video on you tube. The past few years I had tons of new tiny grape clusters come on and then the majority die or fall off before they even get to bb size. I read somewhere I should have a drip line set up that is 2' on each side of the centerline and only have individual runners by each vine. I just have an inexpensive drip hose with holes every 18" or so and try to set it for one-3 hours per day depending on rain. Any advice you can offer will be greatly appreciated.

Here's a blog post I wrote about grapes/flowers falling off.


Muscadine roots run shallow and wide, so drippers at the bases of the plants only benefit them when they're young. It's possible that lack of irrigation isn't your problem, though. See if boron deficiency or mildew is causing the drop. High humidity contributes to mildew.


In my opinion, your vines shouldn't need daily irrigation at 8 years of age.

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Should I till the soil around my suppernong grapes?

Should I till the soil around my scuppernong grapes?

You didn't say why you want to till the soil. Please, let me know why.

Anyway, I guess it depends on whether your scuppernong grapes are old or young. First, you should know that muscadines and scuppernongs are the same species. So, if we're talking about muscadines or scuppernongs, we're talking about the same thing. The roots run shallow and long. Many muscadine roots run less than 4 inches beneath the soil. If your plants have any age to them, you'll probably cut up necessary roots as you pass. Don't till. Leave them alone.

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FAQ: Muscadine varieties incorrectly labeled and few fruit produced

I planted 4 muscadine vines Feb.2012,they were 2 years old, one black jumbo,black loomis, one black southland and one bronze magnolia scuppernong. In 2013 each vine had a few fruit to mature but they all were bronze, none were black. I pruned them this year and I saw lots of very small fruit. They slowly started drying up. I only harvested three fruit. What could be my Problem? Please help! 

Well, it's obvious that you did not get what you thought you bought, otherwise you would have had red grapes on the Loomis and black on the Jumbo and Southland. If the ones labeled Loomis, Jumbo and Southland were not actually Loomis, Jumbo and Southland, it's possible the Magnolia wasn't a Magnolia. In any case, there's no telling what varieties you have.

Here are my thoughts:

You're not going to get many fruit from very young vines, even if you have a good mix of female and self-fertile varieties.

Are you sure the "very small fruit" you saw drying up were actually fruit and not flowers? Sometimes the flowers are mistaken for very small fruit. If flowers dried and fell, it's possible they were never pollinated. Since you don't know what you have, it's possible you don't have a pollinator (self-fertile variety) in the whole bunch. If you have no pollinator, yet had a few fruit, the pollination could have come from wild muscadine vines out in the woods or even from a distant neighbor's property.

If what dried and fell were, indeed, small fruits, they may have fallen off due to dry conditions, fungus encouraged by wet conditions, or magnesium deficiency in the soil. If you observed  yellowing between the  veins of the leaves, you probably have magnesium deficiency. Take a soil sample to your local Cooperative Extension office for testing. You can correct mag deficiency by applying epsom salt at approx. 4 oz. per vine broadcast evenly at approx. 4 to 5 sq. foot area.

Find your local Cooperative Extension office using this interactive map: http://www.csrees.usda.gov/Extension/

I hope this helps.

Another question about renovating an old muscadine trellis

I have a question about OLD muscadine/scuppernong vines. We have a piece of property with very old very neglected vines. Some of the poles are rotted at the ground and need to be replaced to even have a chance of getting things back on track. The grape vine base is by these poles. When we dig new holes is there any way to keep from damaging the old vines? Is it better to try to start over from scratch?

You should be able to avoid damaging visible trunks without much trouble, but to be on the safe side maybe wrap some kind of barrier around the bases of the vines to avoid skinning them with your post hole digger or shovel. A section or two of old bicycle tires or some aluminum flashing held on with wire might work.

You will probably damage some roots in the process, but don't worry about it too much. Muscadine grape roots grow out in various directions from the base of the plant. Each plant will have several. They usually grow less than an inch or two under the soil surface. To avoid damaging roots where you dig, excavate the soil with your finger where you intend to dig to discover whether roots are there. If roots are unavoidable, go ahead and dig. The other roots will support the plants.

Here's an alternative. If the majority of posts are rotted, consider not replacing them where they were before. Install them instead between the vines. For example, if your vines are growing 20' apart, install the new posts half way between them. You have less chance of damaging the plants.

 

Another muscadine arbor renovation project

I have a very old muscadine vine that I'm trying to bring back under management (it's on an overhead,  walk-under arbor).  The problem is that there's multiple, really big trunks coming out of the ground, none of which are really "straight" - they're mostly crooked and inter-twining but all do make it to the top where they branch every where!  I've been trimming the top pretty severely over the last couple winters but with so many trunks in place (easily 5-6), the canopy becomes way too thick and the fruit crop suffers, as a result.  Also, to complicate matters, one of the main, central trunks actually immediately branches a couple times right at the soil level.  Do I just need to "pick one" and clip everything else down to soil level and if so, how to choose?  Also, how do you stop the frenzy of new growth at the base when this is done (particularly drives me nuts!)?  Thank you so much for your time and knowledge!

I think you are correct. As you said, "'pick one' and cut everything else down to soil level." Though all the trunks are crooked, pick the straightest. Yes, there will be a "frenzy of new growth at the base." There's nothing to be done about that but to keep removing the sprouts. The easiest and most effective way is to rub them off with your fingers while they are still very small, young and soft. Wear gloves so you don't rub your skin off in the process. Eventually the sprouts will stop emerging.

You might find it very difficult to untangle and remove the mess on the top of the arbor. Try to retain what you need that is growing from the remaining trunk. But if it becomes impossible to do so, consider cutting the main trunk at the top. Then remove all the old growth from the top of the arbor. It should re-sprout. Choose a few of those vines to form arms radiating outward from the top of the trunk. (I'm assuming the trunk is growing under the center of the arbor.) You will probably have little if any fruit the first year or so, but your arbor will be easier to maintain.

You might not want to prune so radically. If not, I understand completely.

Renovating an old muscadine grape trellis

 

Q. Mr. Marshall, about 20 years back my mother planted some muscadines on a t-post arbor system. She passed away shortly after, and depressed, we all let the land kinda fall into disrepair. I've been working on bringing the yard back, and I finally got to the back where the muscadines were/are. Evidently a tree fell on the trellis at some point and though her original plantings still live, it is horribly over grown, there are shoots every where and trees that need felling. I found remnants of old fruit and rabbit droppings so I believe they are were still fruiting, but I had to cut down the older ones to get at the t-post and mesh it had snarled around. I left about a foot off the ground. It seems to be okay, but there is one gnarled up sucker that has 3 trunks.  Are these things hardy enough that I can expect them to come back? Are they responsive to hard cutting back? Or do you think I probably lost them?

I'd like to set them on a 1 wire trellis like you have here.

 

A.I think you would do well to cut the old trunks flush with the ground. It will be easier for you to work around them clearing brush, setting up your new trellis, etc. If the plants are in reasonably good health, they should sprout. After a few weeks of growth, choose the strongest vine to become your new trunk. Remove the others. It will take some doing to keep the others from returning, but stick with it.

Transplanting 4-year old muscadine vines

I have 2 muscadine vines that are 4 yrs. old that I want to move to another location. I have not been getting that much fruit off of them.  I have some oak trees that were about 15 ft from my vines and now the oaks have grown much faster than anticipated and are blocking a lot of sun light (I think this is my problem) what do you suggest?  I don't want to cut my oak down, and want to keep my vines because what fruit they make is very sweet. 

You may be able to transplant them. Winter is the time to do it. Muscadine grapes are shallow-rooted, and the roots tend to run horizontally a few inches under the soil surface. Soften the soil by thoroughly moistening a 5' radius around the trunk. Gently tug on the vine to raise it a bit and see where the roots run. Then you can carefully remove the roots from the soil. Try to get as much as you can.

Move the plants to the new site. Keep the roots moist until transplanted. 

John Marshall

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A Conversation About Pruning A Young Muscadine Grape Arbor

Young muscadine arbor

John, Thanks for posting the muscadine pruning videos. They are very informational. I was hoping you could answer a question about our muscadine growing/pruning situation. We have four Southland variety muscadines growing up four separate 8 ft arbor posts. Each post has wire running up all four sides. The vines get to the top and then we train them across the arbors in all directions. We let them grab onto each other to form a kind of natural canopy overhead. (Arbors are about six feet away from each other.)

We planted them last February and they did really well this year in terms of vines, and okay in terms of fruit. Most of our fruit actually came in the late Fall. Which surprised us. Anyway, it is getting time to prune, and I'm not sure how to go about it, since we can't really grow them in the T-shape due to our space limitations. If you could give me a recommendation on how to prune, it would be much appreciated. I can send you a picture or two if it would help. Right now, each plant has two to three "main" trunks from which most of the vines are coming.

In your case, I think you could do with only one main trunk per plant. At the top of each trunk you should choose a vine to train as a horizontal arm to cross the top of the arbor. Prune the ends off the arms when they begin to meet. Don't let them overlap.

Once these horizontal arms are formed, choose well-spaced side shoots along the length of each arm to train as fruiting spurs. Cut each shoot to 4 inches in length. Those short spurs will produce their own fruit-producing side shoots during the coming growing season. Next winter, prune those to 3 or 4 inches in length. And so it goes year after year.

As the vines grow older, you'll need to go back and do some renovation pruning, but that's another issue.

So I should have like an 8 ft tall trunk?

It appears that the segments (vertical and horizontal posts across the path) are not connected in any way. Am I correct?

Nevertheless, if the top of the arbor is 8' tall, each trunk should be 8' tall. It seems from the photo that you want the arms to extend across the path. If so, I recommend you have one main trunk growing up each post. Then have one arm from each trunk growing horizontally across the top and meeting in the middle. On those arms,  you'd establish fruiting spurs as described before.

Actually, I think you don't even need a trunk growing up every post. One trunk per segment and one arm growing horizontally across the path would be sufficient. Each trunk would easily produce an arm to extend across the path. As young as your vines are, you could remove the extra vines, especially those growing closest to the building and transplant them elsewhere.

Yes, the two arbors are not connected. So you are saying I should grow two of them to the top, then send one arm across each path? So it would be a 90 degree angle going up the post, then across the arbor top?

So then off the arm, the fruiting spurs would come. Won't these fruiting spurs be really long each year? Should I just let them hang down from the top of the arbor? If so, maybe I would nee to send the arms the other direction (in between the arbors) otherwise I would have a wall of vines blocking the pathway. Maybe then I should just do two plants, catty-corner from each other, and send them in between the arbors?

I guess for the year, I will need to keep a main trunk supported higher up on the plant. Maybe for a few more years until the trunk gets big enough. Right now it is pretty flimsy towards the top.

Yes. You could grow one trunk per vertical post to the top of the post. (Or you could have one trunk growing up one post and no trunk on the opposite post.) Then grow one arm from each trunk at a 90 degree angle (horizontally) to the center of the arbor. When they arms meet at the center of the arbor (above the path), cut the growth tips out of the arms so they don't overlap. They should butt-up to each other.

Then from those arms the fruiting spurs grow.  You see, when you cut the growth tip off of each arm, the arms will be stimulated to produce lateral growth along their lengths. Let all those lateral vines grow during the first growing season. The following winter (pruning season), select lateral vines that are about 8 inches or more apart. They will be the permanent foundation of future fruiting spurs. Prune them short to about 3 buds. Remove entirely any lateral vines between the selected spurs. This will give you enough room between the selected spurs (the permanent foundation) to reach your hand in and pick in the future.

The next growing season, those 3 or so remaining buds on the selected spurs will produce new growth. The following pruning season, prune the new growth to 2 or 3 buds. So it goes year after year.

Yes, the buds on those fruiting spurs will produce long vines during the growing season, but they can be shortened. Most of the fruit will be produced near the base of the spurs way up high, so you can trim the long vines that grow down and get in your way without harming the maturing grapes. When you trim them back, just make sure you leave enough foliage to feed the maturing grapes.

Got it. Thanks so much, John. This really helps

So regarding the pruning I will do very soon, should I select a main trunk and prune it at the top of the arbor? Then train the main arms this season (cutting them off when they reach each other)? I guess I would select which branches would become the main arms by picking the strongest looking ones?

Yes to all.

And here's a final question regarding which plants I should keep. In the picture, the two plants close to the house are in a bed with blueberries. The other two plants are in a bed that has rotating vegetables (anything from carrots to tomatoes to potatoes to peas, lots of stuff, changing year-to-year). I know the grapes and blueberries are both shallow-root plants, but since they are both perennial, do you think it would be better to leave those plants in place and move the plants that are in ever-changing vegetable beds? I guess it's a question of competition with blueberries vs. being in an oft-disturbed vegetable bed.

Companion planting can be a good idea, but some plants don't make good companions. Check around on the internet or in books on the subject to see what might work for you.

Another thought: Most vegetables prefer full sun. Blueberry shrubs nearby might not allow sufficient exposure.

Still another thought: Blueberries like low pH. Some vegetables might prefer higher pH than what blueberries need.

A Question About Pruning A Tangled Muscadine Grape Vine Mess

We have a bronze scuppernog that was 4 years old when we planted it and is now 6 years old, with some bad advice it has become a tangled mess. It has 6 main branches and is on a wire trellis that has been weighed almost to the ground. I was going to prune it back and put it on a steel pipe trellis. Should I prune it all the back to the main branches or just cut off all but two branches and prune them the right way? It was covered in small clusters this past spring but they got no bigger than the head of a pin.Thanks.

Without being there and pointing out specifics, the best advice I can give is that you should carefully examine your vine. Choose 1 good trunk that is relatively straight, or if crooked can be straightened by lashing it to a sturdy stake. From that trunk, choose two sturdy arms extending in opposite directions down the trellis. Remove everything else. It may seem radical to cut off so much, but new vines will be produced this growing season. Even if you make a big mistake, it will only be temporary.

It's kind of like what an art professor told me once; to carve a bird, visualize a bird, then remove everything that doesn't look like that bird.

If the undeveloped clusters were flowers, then you don't have adequate pollination. You'll need a pollinator variety. If the undeveloped clusters were tiny grapes, there are other potential causes.
 

John Marshall

goGardenNow.com

goGardenNow.blogspot.com  

Another question about poor muscadine grape yields

There is an old Muscadine vine at Mama's that grows the sweetest grapes I've ever tasted. The vine is strung east/west if that makes a difference. What I'm asking about is an oak tree at the west end of the vine. In the last 3 years when the vine buds out in the spring and fruit is forming it looks like we are going to have a bumper crop but most of the grapes will shed long before they are of any size. In your opinion does the oak need to be cut down or is there some additive that will stop the shedding? I have been told boron will take care of the problem.

Various factors can contribute to your problem. 

If grapes are forming but falling off, poor pollination isn't your problem.

Insufficient boron can be a problem. It's best to determine whether there's a deficiency by having leaf samples tested. Sandy soils with high pH are most likely to be deficient. You can take leaf and soil samples to your nearest Cooperative Extension Service office to test for boron. This link can help you find yours. http://www.csrees.usda.gov/Extension/

Insufficient moisture can be a problem. Oaks tend to be heavy drinkers, so the oak could contribute to that. If the oak is casting a lot of shade on the grapes, that can be a problem, too.

Powdery mildew can cause flowers and small grapes to drop. It is most active when the temperature is between 60 and 80 degrees F. It can occur in sun or shade, but shade encourages it. Powdery mildew looks like a gray, dusty powder on the flowers/fruit. Fungicides can control it, but if you can eliminate contributing factors, do so.

Some insects (beetles and bugs) will feed on small grapes and flowers. Check in spring to see if they're present.

You mentioned the East/West orientation of your trellis. When planting in full sun, I prefer North/South orientation so that the vines can get sun on both sides of the trellis as the day progresses. Regardless of the orientation, full sun is always best.

John Marshall

goGardenNow.com

goGardenNow.blogspot.com 

I had almost no muscadine grapes. How can I get big yields?

I have a dozen muscadine grapes, all different varieties. This past summer they produced a very large amount of foliage but almost no grapes. I had very few spring blooms. Although I do not prune too closely, I have had grape yields in the past. I use only organic culture... How can I get big yields?

 There are a few things that can contribute to poor muscadine yields. But since you noted that you "do not prune too closely", I expect that's the problem. If you haven't pruned enough in the past, plants will produce a lot of thin, unproductive shoots. I suggest you prune closely this season, leaving only 3 or 4 buds per spur. In addition, reduce the number of spurs.

How close does a muscadine grape pollinator have to be and what would be a good pollinator?

How close does a pollinator have to be and what would be a good pollinator.

The nearer the better. Within 100' should be okay. Within 20' would be better. Plant one or two pollinators with the others and you should be okay. There are many good pollinators. Cowart, Carlos and Triumph are good.

John Marshall
goGardenNow.com
goGardenNow.blogspot.com